I love that you featured a great graphic on your sign and celebrated the artist by mentioning her! :) And I love that you're out on the streets with the rest of us, although I wish we didn't have to be out there and that all was much better than it is. Sending hugs to you and B.
As lovely and articulate as this is, it does not address the necessary courage to derail tyranny and catastrophic threat, with risks thereof. There is another side of the ledger. When a nation has a manifesto to annihilate another nation or two ( as the great and little Satans), believes Sharia law should dominate the world, and deems a nuclear arsenal as their “ inalienable right” and their global destiny, action from the civilized world may be required. What would you tell the woman placed in bondage by such a dominations? A gay man? .
Using WWII as an historical benchmark, what if the world had remained passive and acquiesced to the Third Reich in the name of peace? What if the world had the courage to intervene sooner? Dietrich Bonhoeffer loved peace, but he honestly dealt with the questions we would rather not address. Most of all, when is action required for the sake of the next generation? It’s messy. The ideal is beautiful, poetic and lovely. It absolutely deserves a voice. But on the other side of the discussion is the courage to act for the sake of civilization
hi scott! long time, no argue! <grin> written in 1984, the suite searches to present a baseline of belief in Love for all peoples. your comments caused me to dig a little deeper into the core of the message and i couldn't help but be surprised at the similarity to dylan's WITH GOD ON OUR SIDE. you might be as surprised as me - check them out:
"Oh, my name, it ain't nothin', my age, it means less
The country I come from is called the Midwest
I's taught and brought up there, the laws to abide
And that the land that I live in has God on its side
Oh, the history books tell it, they tell it so well
The cavalries charged, the Indians fell
The cavalries charged, the Indians died
Oh, the country was young with God on its side
The Spanish-American War had its day
And the Civil War too was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes I was made to memorize
With guns in their hands and God on their side
The First World War, boys, it came and it went
The reason for fightin' I never did get
But I learned to accept it, accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead when God's on your side
The Second World War came to an end
We forgave the Germans, and then we were friends
Though they murdered six million, in the ovens they fried
The Germans now too have God on their side
I learned to hate the Russians all through my whole life
If another war comes, it's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them, to run and to hide
And accept it all bravely with God on my side
But now we've got weapons of chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to, then fire them we must
One push of the button and they shot the world wide
And you never ask questions when God's on your side
Through many dark hour I been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ was betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you, you'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot had God on his side
So now as I'm leavin', I'm weary as hell
The confusion I'm feelin' ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head, and they fall to the floor
That if God's on our side, he'll stop the next war"
Amazing how Dylan’s lyrics still resonate ( even if he might confess that he didn’t completely understand his own lyrics sometimes) I cite Bonhoeffer because we are working on a Broadway musical on his life. You might enjoy this song clip : https://youtu.be/pojQvzIiw4M?si=SshlUNzEARrNYdUH
Hi, Loved P P and M always and Noel, I love your consistency and your peaceful nature. But this is about war...eh? I joined the Marine Corps in '66 and volunteered for Vietnam. When I was back and out, I immediately realized that I had done an incredibly stupid thing. Didn't kill anyone though, didn't want to. My only enemy there was a Sargent who arrived when I had about 3 or 4 months to go. He was a mean spirited killer, a southerner and the only battle I engaged in was with him as I thwarted him in his attempts to find someone to kill. After I was out I couldn't stop wondering what war was all about. It is a messy topic. I read a lot, learned about war and beyond. I started sixty years ago and am still at it. Here's the thing: A social Contract. Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan (1651) : "During the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man". "Whatsoever therefore is consequent to a time of war, where every man is enemy to every man, the same consequent to the time wherein men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them withal. In such condition there is no place for industry... no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” Stay with me...THEN there is The Social Contract & Discourses by Jean-Jacques Rousseau a century later. Here's a quote: "Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains," Where I am headed here is Thomas Jefferson (all men are created equal) then James Madison, John Adams and all the rest. Hobbes, Rousseau and Locke Their influences were philosophers going back to the Greeks. Here's a quote from Plato: “Tyranny follows Democracy.” Democracy is a fragile thing and we are witnessing its destruction. That was the basis of our constitution.
Those founders, they got it half right. Slavery and the subjective illusion that slavery was morally acceptable. To keep the south "United" caused the founders to acquiesce in ways that haunt us now. (the electoral college, two senators per state regardless of population count, a politically motivated Supreme Court and on and on.) The music of our time, lots of protest songs. I used to reflect that there were two motives for war presented in folk music Dylans' Masters of war and Buffy Sainte-Marie and her song Universal Soldier. Your lyrics that you start with for “Global Destiny.” hits exactly right: An isolated few, by economic piracy". Your second reference "Could Love be the answer?" P P and M sang songs about various aspect of love, so my answer to your question that you pose is Yes and No. Yes because, yeah, if everyone knew how to love and understood the meaning of love...That would work. No, because there are few that understand how to love and how to be loved. Nine Billion humans. What percentage of that 9 billion know what love is. I sure as hell didn't and I am not sure that I understand even now at age 78. Even as the folk singers of the sixties were trying to communicate the concept of love, they were also protesting wars, they were mocking the christians who felt they had God on their side, they were often expressing the world that they saw through the haze of drugs and alcohol, open sexuality, disrespectful of authorities such as governments and theocracies. And all the while, following my birth, in those 78 years the network of imperial collonialism still existed throughout the globe and the inhabitants were being treated as non-humans. And that included the war I participated in. Why did we fight that war? The domino theory? Communism was going to take over the globe and our most valuable asset: Money, would be distributed evenly amongst all of us. Yeah, that isolated few bastards, were not going to let that happen and like a fool, I went to war for them.
Thank you! This newsletter is packed with so much good information ( and music). Sometimes even those of us in the choir can gain new knowledge and deeper understanding.
Noel - what a profound message in these times....thank you for sharing the video and the suite of songs...it is easy to go down the rabbit hole of despair...your words help me to feel rooted and able to move forward...thank you for your creativity and gentle soul...
Noel:
A beautiful message for Good Friday.
I am a tried and true Presbyterian: I subscribe to "Sojourners" and I read Christopher Hale's column on the Pope, Pope Leo is such a great leader.
Keep up your meaningful writing.
In One Peace,
Sharye
Bravo. Not in our name. Not on our watch....
I love that you featured a great graphic on your sign and celebrated the artist by mentioning her! :) And I love that you're out on the streets with the rest of us, although I wish we didn't have to be out there and that all was much better than it is. Sending hugs to you and B.
As lovely and articulate as this is, it does not address the necessary courage to derail tyranny and catastrophic threat, with risks thereof. There is another side of the ledger. When a nation has a manifesto to annihilate another nation or two ( as the great and little Satans), believes Sharia law should dominate the world, and deems a nuclear arsenal as their “ inalienable right” and their global destiny, action from the civilized world may be required. What would you tell the woman placed in bondage by such a dominations? A gay man? .
Using WWII as an historical benchmark, what if the world had remained passive and acquiesced to the Third Reich in the name of peace? What if the world had the courage to intervene sooner? Dietrich Bonhoeffer loved peace, but he honestly dealt with the questions we would rather not address. Most of all, when is action required for the sake of the next generation? It’s messy. The ideal is beautiful, poetic and lovely. It absolutely deserves a voice. But on the other side of the discussion is the courage to act for the sake of civilization
hi scott! long time, no argue! <grin> written in 1984, the suite searches to present a baseline of belief in Love for all peoples. your comments caused me to dig a little deeper into the core of the message and i couldn't help but be surprised at the similarity to dylan's WITH GOD ON OUR SIDE. you might be as surprised as me - check them out:
"Oh, my name, it ain't nothin', my age, it means less
The country I come from is called the Midwest
I's taught and brought up there, the laws to abide
And that the land that I live in has God on its side
Oh, the history books tell it, they tell it so well
The cavalries charged, the Indians fell
The cavalries charged, the Indians died
Oh, the country was young with God on its side
The Spanish-American War had its day
And the Civil War too was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes I was made to memorize
With guns in their hands and God on their side
The First World War, boys, it came and it went
The reason for fightin' I never did get
But I learned to accept it, accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead when God's on your side
The Second World War came to an end
We forgave the Germans, and then we were friends
Though they murdered six million, in the ovens they fried
The Germans now too have God on their side
I learned to hate the Russians all through my whole life
If another war comes, it's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them, to run and to hide
And accept it all bravely with God on my side
But now we've got weapons of chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to, then fire them we must
One push of the button and they shot the world wide
And you never ask questions when God's on your side
Through many dark hour I been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ was betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you, you'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot had God on his side
So now as I'm leavin', I'm weary as hell
The confusion I'm feelin' ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head, and they fall to the floor
That if God's on our side, he'll stop the next war"
bob dylan - 1964
Amazing how Dylan’s lyrics still resonate ( even if he might confess that he didn’t completely understand his own lyrics sometimes) I cite Bonhoeffer because we are working on a Broadway musical on his life. You might enjoy this song clip : https://youtu.be/pojQvzIiw4M?si=SshlUNzEARrNYdUH
Hi, Loved P P and M always and Noel, I love your consistency and your peaceful nature. But this is about war...eh? I joined the Marine Corps in '66 and volunteered for Vietnam. When I was back and out, I immediately realized that I had done an incredibly stupid thing. Didn't kill anyone though, didn't want to. My only enemy there was a Sargent who arrived when I had about 3 or 4 months to go. He was a mean spirited killer, a southerner and the only battle I engaged in was with him as I thwarted him in his attempts to find someone to kill. After I was out I couldn't stop wondering what war was all about. It is a messy topic. I read a lot, learned about war and beyond. I started sixty years ago and am still at it. Here's the thing: A social Contract. Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan (1651) : "During the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man". "Whatsoever therefore is consequent to a time of war, where every man is enemy to every man, the same consequent to the time wherein men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them withal. In such condition there is no place for industry... no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” Stay with me...THEN there is The Social Contract & Discourses by Jean-Jacques Rousseau a century later. Here's a quote: "Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains," Where I am headed here is Thomas Jefferson (all men are created equal) then James Madison, John Adams and all the rest. Hobbes, Rousseau and Locke Their influences were philosophers going back to the Greeks. Here's a quote from Plato: “Tyranny follows Democracy.” Democracy is a fragile thing and we are witnessing its destruction. That was the basis of our constitution.
Those founders, they got it half right. Slavery and the subjective illusion that slavery was morally acceptable. To keep the south "United" caused the founders to acquiesce in ways that haunt us now. (the electoral college, two senators per state regardless of population count, a politically motivated Supreme Court and on and on.) The music of our time, lots of protest songs. I used to reflect that there were two motives for war presented in folk music Dylans' Masters of war and Buffy Sainte-Marie and her song Universal Soldier. Your lyrics that you start with for “Global Destiny.” hits exactly right: An isolated few, by economic piracy". Your second reference "Could Love be the answer?" P P and M sang songs about various aspect of love, so my answer to your question that you pose is Yes and No. Yes because, yeah, if everyone knew how to love and understood the meaning of love...That would work. No, because there are few that understand how to love and how to be loved. Nine Billion humans. What percentage of that 9 billion know what love is. I sure as hell didn't and I am not sure that I understand even now at age 78. Even as the folk singers of the sixties were trying to communicate the concept of love, they were also protesting wars, they were mocking the christians who felt they had God on their side, they were often expressing the world that they saw through the haze of drugs and alcohol, open sexuality, disrespectful of authorities such as governments and theocracies. And all the while, following my birth, in those 78 years the network of imperial collonialism still existed throughout the globe and the inhabitants were being treated as non-humans. And that included the war I participated in. Why did we fight that war? The domino theory? Communism was going to take over the globe and our most valuable asset: Money, would be distributed evenly amongst all of us. Yeah, that isolated few bastards, were not going to let that happen and like a fool, I went to war for them.
Just listened to “Come Away Suite” and it is so powerful. The lyrics are incredible.
Thank you so much for this post... much love, and all the blessings of Easter to you and yours!
Reading this, the song "Day is Done" was going through my head. I am afraid all will not be well when day is done...
Thank you! This newsletter is packed with so much good information ( and music). Sometimes even those of us in the choir can gain new knowledge and deeper understanding.
YOU are a gift. Peace on Earth.
Noel - what a profound message in these times....thank you for sharing the video and the suite of songs...it is easy to go down the rabbit hole of despair...your words help me to feel rooted and able to move forward...thank you for your creativity and gentle soul...
Jan
Glad you mentioned my Church and the Just War doctrine. We try!!!